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	<title>Comments on: Direct Reference: Beyond the Valley of the Dolls with The Pipettes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/</link>
	<description>Feminist discourses in wax and plastic</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:54:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ann Magnuson: Diva? &#171; Feminist Music Geek</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-1197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann Magnuson: Diva? &#171; Feminist Music Geek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-1197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] which was apparently inspired by the mad-cap narratives, sex-crazed vixens, and pop-art shine of Russ Meyer movies. It certainly explains the cover, though no explanation needs to be given for songs like [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] which was apparently inspired by the mad-cap narratives, sex-crazed vixens, and pop-art shine of Russ Meyer movies. It certainly explains the cover, though no explanation needs to be given for songs like [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Covered: The Long Blondes&#8217; &#8220;Someone To Drive You Home&#8221; &#171; Feminist Music Geek</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-479</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Covered: The Long Blondes&#8217; &#8220;Someone To Drive You Home&#8221; &#171; Feminist Music Geek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in &#8220;Fulwood Babylon&#8221; might be done with a bit of feminist cheek, and while I&#8217;m have trouble reading the nuances of intentional camp in Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, I&#8217;m sure my [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in &#8220;Fulwood Babylon&#8221; might be done with a bit of feminist cheek, and while I&#8217;m have trouble reading the nuances of intentional camp in Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, I&#8217;m sure my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Curran</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 02:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just remembered - another (great!) book to look at is Jose Esteban Munoz&#039;s Disidenitifications, which deals with the ways in which queers of color negotiate their way through majority culture.  Alex mentioned this book in his piece on Lady Gaga.  It is a useful supplement to Doty&#039;s book, which is very white focused.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just remembered &#8211; another (great!) book to look at is Jose Esteban Munoz&#8217;s Disidenitifications, which deals with the ways in which queers of color negotiate their way through majority culture.  Alex mentioned this book in his piece on Lady Gaga.  It is a useful supplement to Doty&#8217;s book, which is very white focused.</p>
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		<title>By: Curran</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I love giving recommendations!  There are two good anthologies on camp - one edited by Fabio Cleto and the other by David Bergman.  The Cleto is especially good - it includes all the major camp essays (including a few on the possibilities and limitations of feminist camp) and an introduction that gives an excellent camp overview.  The Bergman is pretty good too.  I own both, if you ever want to borrow them.  Judith Butler&#039;s Gender Trouble is, as it has been argued, also about camp - and gives camp perhaps its best (although, most convoluted) defense.  

As for the intentional vs. unintentional distinction - the anthologies will cover this, but essentially unintentional camp is derived via reception, whereas intentional camp is constructed via production/performance.  Unintentional camp is Mommie Dearest, intentional camp is John Waters and RuPaul.

For understanding the politics of queer readings, the best work is still Alexander Doty&#039;s Making Things Perfectly Queer - especially the first two chapters.

I&#039;ll also try to locate Rich&#039;s essay on Faster, Pussycat!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I love giving recommendations!  There are two good anthologies on camp &#8211; one edited by Fabio Cleto and the other by David Bergman.  The Cleto is especially good &#8211; it includes all the major camp essays (including a few on the possibilities and limitations of feminist camp) and an introduction that gives an excellent camp overview.  The Bergman is pretty good too.  I own both, if you ever want to borrow them.  Judith Butler&#8217;s Gender Trouble is, as it has been argued, also about camp &#8211; and gives camp perhaps its best (although, most convoluted) defense.  </p>
<p>As for the intentional vs. unintentional distinction &#8211; the anthologies will cover this, but essentially unintentional camp is derived via reception, whereas intentional camp is constructed via production/performance.  Unintentional camp is Mommie Dearest, intentional camp is John Waters and RuPaul.</p>
<p>For understanding the politics of queer readings, the best work is still Alexander Doty&#8217;s Making Things Perfectly Queer &#8211; especially the first two chapters.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll also try to locate Rich&#8217;s essay on Faster, Pussycat!</p>
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		<title>By: Alyx Vesey</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alyx Vesey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you have titles of books, articles, etc., to share, particularly about intentional camp, Meyer, and/or queer reception? Any of this literature might also help me further nuance my reading of BVOD and other movies of its kind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have titles of books, articles, etc., to share, particularly about intentional camp, Meyer, and/or queer reception? Any of this literature might also help me further nuance my reading of BVOD and other movies of its kind.</p>
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		<title>By: Curran</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Love it!  But, I, of course, have to respond. :):

Yes, but everything you take issue with, the film is *itself* taking issue with:  The film is making fun of the very idea of predatory lesbians and tranny killers.  And, the ending is a parody of Hollywood endings.  A double-wedding plus a paraplegic, remarkably able to walk again, meandering down a rocky river bed with his go-go-suddenly-turned-Victorian-girlfriend.  Absurd!  It&#039;s in no way meant to be taken seriously or to support the idea of marriage and hetero coupling.  In fact, I would say quite the opposite.  There is unintentional camp and intentional camp, and this film is unequivocally an example of the latter (i.e., it knows what it&#039;s doing).

Plus, it&#039;s not just Meyer&#039;s characters that have feminist followings, but Meyer himself.  Indeed, in praising Faster, Pussycat!, lesbian feminist scholar B. Ruby Rich called Meyer, &quot;the first feminist American director.&quot;  This is surely an overstatement, and one that is insulting to the truly feminist (and female) directors that came before him.  But, while I do not agree, I think there may be something to the idea of Meyer&#039;s films as containing feminist elements.  True, the women in Meyer&#039;s films have large breasts that - along with the rest of their bodies - are repeatedly put on display.  But, while Meyer&#039;s men are generally either jerks, morons, losers or all three, his women are generally smart, (physically) strong and victorious by film&#039;s end.  For sure, this doesn&#039;t qualify Meyer for a &quot;Feminist of the Century&quot; award, but it does make it more difficult to dismiss his films as simply sexist and regressive.  Especially when his films are placed alongside others from the 1960s and 1970s.    

And, again, there is the issue of sex/gender parody.

BVOD also has a large queer (by which I don&#039;t mean just gay male) following.  I&#039;ve seen the film at queer midnight movie showings twice, and in both instances the audience was more than receptive.  

There have long been debates over whether or not, and to what degree, straights, due to different life circumstances, have access to camp.  Divergent reactions to this film and Pink Flamingos make me wonder about this.

Also, for me this brings up the whole question of whether or not effective critique must always be serious, or whether it can come in the form of humor and deliberate offensiveness.  This is a central issue that I will be grappling with in my dissertation, which is focused on works that combine camp&#039;s humor with punk&#039;s deliberate offensiveness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it!  But, I, of course, have to respond. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> :</p>
<p>Yes, but everything you take issue with, the film is *itself* taking issue with:  The film is making fun of the very idea of predatory lesbians and tranny killers.  And, the ending is a parody of Hollywood endings.  A double-wedding plus a paraplegic, remarkably able to walk again, meandering down a rocky river bed with his go-go-suddenly-turned-Victorian-girlfriend.  Absurd!  It&#8217;s in no way meant to be taken seriously or to support the idea of marriage and hetero coupling.  In fact, I would say quite the opposite.  There is unintentional camp and intentional camp, and this film is unequivocally an example of the latter (i.e., it knows what it&#8217;s doing).</p>
<p>Plus, it&#8217;s not just Meyer&#8217;s characters that have feminist followings, but Meyer himself.  Indeed, in praising Faster, Pussycat!, lesbian feminist scholar B. Ruby Rich called Meyer, &#8220;the first feminist American director.&#8221;  This is surely an overstatement, and one that is insulting to the truly feminist (and female) directors that came before him.  But, while I do not agree, I think there may be something to the idea of Meyer&#8217;s films as containing feminist elements.  True, the women in Meyer&#8217;s films have large breasts that &#8211; along with the rest of their bodies &#8211; are repeatedly put on display.  But, while Meyer&#8217;s men are generally either jerks, morons, losers or all three, his women are generally smart, (physically) strong and victorious by film&#8217;s end.  For sure, this doesn&#8217;t qualify Meyer for a &#8220;Feminist of the Century&#8221; award, but it does make it more difficult to dismiss his films as simply sexist and regressive.  Especially when his films are placed alongside others from the 1960s and 1970s.    </p>
<p>And, again, there is the issue of sex/gender parody.</p>
<p>BVOD also has a large queer (by which I don&#8217;t mean just gay male) following.  I&#8217;ve seen the film at queer midnight movie showings twice, and in both instances the audience was more than receptive.  </p>
<p>There have long been debates over whether or not, and to what degree, straights, due to different life circumstances, have access to camp.  Divergent reactions to this film and Pink Flamingos make me wonder about this.</p>
<p>Also, for me this brings up the whole question of whether or not effective critique must always be serious, or whether it can come in the form of humor and deliberate offensiveness.  This is a central issue that I will be grappling with in my dissertation, which is focused on works that combine camp&#8217;s humor with punk&#8217;s deliberate offensiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: Alyx Vesey</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alyx Vesey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-463</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, it kinda blew my mind too!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it kinda blew my mind too!</p>
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		<title>By: Liz K</title>
		<link>http://feministmusicgeek.com/2009/09/13/direct-reference-beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls-with-the-pipettes/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liz K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministmusicgeek.com/?p=1514#comment-462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am glad that you wrote this!  I most likely would have never known about that reference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad that you wrote this!  I most likely would have never known about that reference.</p>
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